Newbold town board declines to change speeds, post signs on Black Lake Road and others

The Newbold town board had no opposition to town chairman Dan Hess saying he can contact the Oneida County Sheriff’s Office for additional presence on Black Lake Road and surrounding roads, as well as request a radar speed sign on that road.

Residents, at a previous town board meeting, requested the board erect speed limit signs on Black Lake Road and surrounding roads because cars oftentimes speed.

“This was brought up at a prior board meeting,” Hess said. “I did do some research on it … from … Black Lake Road to the fire department to Gypsy Lake Road. It is a 55 speed zone. It has been for a long, long time.”

He said he “looked heavily” at accident data for roads in that area.

There have been 60 accidents, Hess said, since 1990 on Black Lake Road.

“So that’s like two a year, two-and-a-half a year,” he said. “A lot of those accidents that I looked at are car-deer accidents. I went through the data in the last three years and there have been no accidents from the fire department to Gypsy Lake Road.”

In order to change the speed limit, Hess said, the town can change its ordinance after it receives approval from the Department of Transportation (DOT) “for the speed limit amount.”

“And I don’t believe DOT would be in favor of that change based on accident data in that area,” he said. 

Public works director Mark Fetzer said he thought “the area of concern was actually west of Gypsy Lake Road.”

Resident Scott Luedtke said those concerned are primarily west of Gypsy Lake Road “but the straight stretch from the curve … is where they’re speeding.”

Fetzer said, according to the town ordinance, the only listed speed limits on Black Lake Road are from the town shop to South Shore Drive at 45 miles an hour and South Shore Drive to Ranch Road at 35 miles an hour. 

“Everything else is legally unposted,” he said. “So it’s 55 miles per hour if it’s unposted. So, as far as the accidents and all that … there’s certain criteria for the changing of speed limits by the DOT.”

Hess said he would leave the decision up to the board, but mentioned “there’s a lot to” changing speed limits “in rural areas.”

“And if you don’t have the accident data to support it, I can’t see changing it,” he said. 

Town supervisor Mike McKenzie said he thinks it’s not always a “posting problem, it gets to be an enforcement problem.”

“The road that I live on is posted 35 on both ends, and I’m sure there are cars, especially on the straight stretches, that are doing close to 50 because that’s what they can safely drive,” he said. “You know, they’re not thinking about the house or pedestrians … when they’re driving through. I’m not trying to knock the signs, but what I’m saying is as far as I’m concerned, a sign is not going to fix the problem.”

McKenzie mentioned the radar speed sign and Hess said the sheriff’s office places them all over the county.

Hess added he thinks the issue would be better dealt with by the sheriff’s office than contacting the DOT with regard to changing the speed limit and posting signs.

“Because until somebody gets a ticket or they see a squad sitting there, I don't see a change,” McKenzie said.

The sheriff’s office enforcing speed on Black Lake Road isn’t a guarantee because it depends on how busy deputies are, Hess said, but he could still request it.

Town supervisor Scott Ridderbusch initiated a conversation about the history of the town changing speed limits.

Fetzer said this issue has come up before near Black Lake Road and River Road, where residents wanted posted speed limits and lower speeds. 

He said he didn’t remember when it was, but at the time, the town board decided to “address speed limits in general and look at the ordinance.”

“So they adjusted the speed on Black Lake Road from the 45 to the 35 for those sections that were mentioned,” Fetzer said. “There are other roads on that list that have 25 miles per hour speed limits, 35, you know they are areas of the town. I don’t know how those came about or when they came about. I think at the time that this was addressed the town simply went by what was already posted and assumed it was OK. But then when they wanted to change something, they wanted to go by what the DOT said.”

Hess mentioned he spoke with former town chairman Dave Kroll, who explained to him changing speed limits with the DOT “is a very lengthy process.”

“And he did it probably within the last 20 years, he went through all the roads and that’s when it was done,” he said. “But you got to get approved by the DOT and then to change it, otherwise it’s not enforceable. You could do it as a town ordinance as a speed limit, but we don’t have cops, so there’s no one to enforce it.”

Town supervisor Brad White said he reviewed state statute lately with regard to setting speed limits on town roads.

He said it “spells it out pretty well for criteria.”

Hess said he’ll reach out to the sheriff’s office to get more of a presence near Black Lake Road and surrounding roads, as well as a radar speed sign.

“It’s a good place to start,” McKenzie said.

Luedtke made a public comment towards the end of the meeting. 

He thanked the board for researching his concerns about the speed limits, however, he indicated he wasn’t satisfied with the outcome of the board’s discussion.

“So you guys are acknowledging there are no speed limit signs on these roads in our town, people can go 55 miles per hour, that’s a state law,” Luedtke said, continuing to explain how he felt enforcing an unposted road could be difficult for law enforcement.

He listed a number of roads in town with no posted speed limits. 

“So they’re all 55?” Luedtke asked and board members responded yes. “What a shame … and what I’m hearing you guys say is it gets too onerous for us to make these roads safer. So we’re OK with reducing populations of deer and tourists with people driving like nuts on our roads ... that’s my belief.”

Trevor Greene may be reached via email at [email protected].