November 19, 2018 at 4:14 p.m.
Supervisor questions Oneida County hiring practices
Jensen: 'We, as a county board, seem to ignore our county code consistently'
Supervisor questions Oneida County hiring practices
Last Tuesday, another resolution, this one to appoint Lisa Jolin as the new solid waste director for Oneida County, was the subject of extensive discussion after Jensen questioned the county's hiring practices.
Currently the county's solid waste manager, Jolin has been with Oneida County for six years, all of that time with the highway/solid waste department.
Jensen began the discussion by noting the introduction of the resolution states the public works committee is recommending Jolin's appointment to the position of solid waste director.
"I was the one 'no' vote relative to this committee decision and I will explain that later, but I'd like to give the other four members of that committee time to explain their support for that resolution before I comment on my concerns," he said.
The other four members of that committee are Ted Cushing, Mike Timmons, Scott Holewinski and Sonny Paszak.
"Could someone tell me why we need to go to that (director of solid waste)?" supervisor Jim Winkler asked.
Cushing said there had been "considerable debate" at the October public works committee meeting with regard to establishing a solid waste director.
Jensen, who is chairman of the committee, was not present for the meeting where the Jolin recommendation was made, however he stressed his concern was not with the person recommended for the position but with the hiring process itself.
"My concern is that we, as a county board, seem to ignore our county code consistently," he said.
Jensen went on to explain that the county has an administrative or county coordinator, which in most cases, is the human resources director. Lisa Charbarneau is Oneida County's administrative coordinator.
Reading from the county code, Jensen said the county coordinator sets the personnel policies established in chapter four of the county code.
"Chapter four," he read. "'Once a vacancy is identified' - we identified that vacancy last month - 'recruitment activities will commence.' I was unable to attend the meeting where a motion was made for the agenda ... to put this consideration for department head on a resolution."
He continued to read from the county code, stating "whenever it's felt the local area can support a vacancy, by advertising in the official county newspaper such advertisement shall be made and other forms of public notice may be used at the discretion of the county coordinator."
Jensen said he had no idea of Charbarneau's recommendation on the Jolin issue.
"I know you've heard me many times ... I firmly believe there is nothing more important that any organization does than the hiring of people," Jensen said. "We need to do our due diligence with either internal or external postings to make sure we are hiring absolutely, positively the best thing."
Reading again from the county code, he said "a selection committee shall be appointed" once the recruitment process begins to fill a vacancy.
The selection committee is a broad-based committee, Jensen read from the code, and is to include oversight committee members, department head or designee, member or members of the county's labor relations and employee services committee, county coordinator and/or a county employee service manager.
"I would suggest to you that that's logical," Jensen said. "Because now, what you do with that selection committee, you don't just have the committee of jurisdiction's viewpoints as to the applicants' qualifications. You're going to review those new qualifications that are part of this position as far as administrative leadership. That committee is going to be more objective. And again, this may be the best candidate. We don't know. We have not gone through the proper processes to ensure we're hiring the best people and that's my concern. It has nothing to do with the person (Jolin) on here."
If the resolution appointing Jolin to the position of solid waste director would be defeated, Jensen acknowledged he understood the county board could return in January and appoint her at that time.
"That could very well be," Jensen said. "But we will have gone through the process to verify this individual has the knowledge and skills to be successful in this position and/or the potential through the training process to ensure the person will be successful."
Jensen noted the next resolution on the agenda for the day was to appoint acting medical examiner Crystal Schaub as the new county medical examiner.
A deputy Oneida County medical examiner since May 2016, Schaub was one of four candidates seeking to replace Larry Mathein who resigned in late August.
"There was an interview committee," Jensen said, referring to the process that ended with Schaub being recommended for the position. "We've got to become consistent in what we do. Why do we have a county code if we don't follow it?"
Responses to Jensen
When asked to respond to Jensen's remarks, Charbarneau said the past practice for department heads, including herself, has included resolutions such as the one recommending Jolin coming to the board for consideration.
She said she was not interviewed and there was no selection committee when she was appointed to her current position.
Charbarneau also noted that county social services director Mary Rideout, forestry director John Bilogan and planning and zoning department head Karl Jennrich were placed in their current positions without going before a selection committee.
"There are others that were not put through that same process," she said.
Cushing wondered why the interview process should be pursued if a qualified person is already "in house" and the committee of jurisdiction recognizes it.
"Why would we spend the money?" he asked. "This next resolution (for Schaub's appointment as M.E.), there wasn't anyone who wanted the job. They had to advertise the job twice, I believe, to fill that medical examiner position."
Cushing said anyone on the county board could bring a resolution to the board for consideration.
"You don't need committee approval," he said. "You don't need the chairman's approval."
At that point, board chairman Dave Hintz noted corporation counsel Mike Fugle had advised the conversation was drifting from the matter at hand.
Experience difference?
Supervisor Bob Mott said he wondered if there was a difference in the respective experience levels of Rideout, Charbarneau and Jennrich before they were appointed to their jobs with the county.
"Is there a possibility there's a difference because of that?" he asked.
Mott also noted that the compensation for the position Jolin was seeking is in the $80,000 range when adding in the benefit package.
"We want to get the best person," he said. "Is there a better person within the county or outside the county? I think it's always money well spent to find the best person for the job."
Grand debate now?
Supervisor Bill Liebert, who was elected to the board in April, steered the conversation back to the county ordinance.
"If there's one thing I really can't stand, and it has to do with before I was in this position, that's when you have an ordinance and it doesn't get enforced," he said.
Liebert said he appreciated Jensen bringing attention to the mattter but, at the same time, he also felt it made sense to look at people already employed by the county for other jobs.
"There is a savings because that person is already in the house," he said. "But it sounds like an ordinance needs to be amended. I'm not against the idea of bringing someone that's here in the house into a position, but if we're not following the ordinance we have no business being here."
If the resolution were to be voted down, it could return to the public works committee to determine what the process would be, Fugle advised.
"I don't know if you want to get into a grand debate about how each department should do its hiring process," he said. "I think you should probably address the issue here and whatever is the result of the vote, I guess it would provide direction moving forward."
The right person
Paszak said Jolin was chosen by the public works committee because she was "the most experienced" candidate.
"She put in the best time in the last year out there," he said. "She was out there and nowhere else and I believe, the last four years, we haven't had the right person. I would say she is the right person and she's making money for us."
After acknowledging the question was outside the parameter of the resolution discussion on the floor, Winkler asked Fugle if the ordinance should be amended or adjusted.
"I think that's a policy question, Jim," Fugle said.
"If we do decide to pursue that, I believe the LRES committee, I think, is the one to consider that and bring it back with any proposed changes," Hintz said. "I think we get beyond the matter on the table today."
'Shame on us'
Jensen made one last stand.
"When you establish a job description, you do not consider ... anyone that is currently in that department or that position," he said. "You write that job description on what's in the best interest of Oneida County and we made a decision last month that the best interest was we revise our solid waste director and our solid waste person."
At no point was there discussion regarding current solid waste employees moving into the solid waste director position, he added.
"I found it interesting in my absence the motion for the future agenda was filling of the newly created department head and forwarding the resolution to the county board," he said. "How in the world does this resolution get developed before the meeting? And I challenge anyone to check the minutes of public works where we started talking about 'Let's reorganize and let's move this person here and this person here.' That did not happen or my memory's fading me, OK? How do you write a resolution prior to the committee discussing that this is the person we want and this is the level we should put that person in? We never had that discussion. Never."
Jensen said there may have been conversations outside the public works committee regarding plans for the solid waste department and where its personnel would be placed.
"If that happened, shame on us," he said. "Shame on us because I don't understand how that resolution could get developed without the committee talking about the selection process and potential candidates to do that."
Charbarneau said the job description was updated when the two departments were split.
Eventually, Hintz called the question.
Sixteen supervisors voted for the resolution's approval with four - Jensen, Fried, Mott and Winkler, voting against.
Liebert abstained.
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